One good thing about these tees from the Peralta Collection is that newcomers will know who is and is not part of the neighborhood welcoming committee. Heck, I’m not even new to the nabe and I would cross the street if I saw someone sporting one of these tees. But then again, I’m also a bit of a prude, especially when it comes to “urban” streetwear.
Lighten up, it’s just fashion, right?
For more “edgy” urban gear, check out:
Related: Confederate Shirt [Gothamist]
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stalherz
May 22, 2008
T,
It sounds like you are the only one throwing down negative references and stereotypes. The New Yorker, Coffee Mug and Chimps? Nah.
I do agree with you about the West Africans in the Upper West side Though.
My first comment on the page was all about the guns – I didn’t even realize it was pointed at a white guy. I guess people see what they want to see.
The “You” you refer to is not fair. After all, I’m here, my parents are from here, My mom was a teacher and still is, giving back to her community, and I live here because I love to see kids playing on the street. I love to be able to say hello to folks walking down the street. I love to see kids playing in the fire hydrants in the summer time.
Nothing to do with race. Just a good place to live. Guns are the worst part of American culture.
T
May 22, 2008
Hi Harlem, I agree with you 2 wrongs do not make a right. Again I didn’t advocate that. You “cultured” folks don’t read.
My point with Jim Crow and Greenwood etc., is that no one even knows or acknowledges that these things have happened. But the black folks are the savages. But how many towns did black people burn down?
And guns are a part of the culture. Ask the NRA folks in our country. The use of guns are almost a rite of passage. My point all along has been that there is a double standard regarding the situation in Harlem and how the people that live there are reacting to gentrification.
No one seems to want to address that. Again, if a segment of folks who ignored you, despised you, were repulsed by you, wish you never existed suddenly decided to displace you and your world, how would you feel? You don’t feel we are worth the oxygen but you want to live where we live and kick us out.
The attitude that I’m hearing on this board is to just suck it up. That would never be said if UWS was suddenly taken over by say, West African immigrants. All kinds of laws and banking & zoning procedures would be made to keep them out.
That makes people angry.
The shirts are not the best way to express this but if your culture or (community if that makes you feel better) has only taught you to respond to a threat of your existence is by aggression, then that is how you may respond. And make some money off of it. Why this is so, is a whole ‘nother subject that you probably are not even interested.
And no “Period”.
Not until you (collectively) put down your New Yorker magazines and your coffees and understand that Harlem is made of people who don’t even really understand what is going on. Human beings just like you, who may not be as “cultured” as you are but still live and breathe.
Again No “Period”. You will probably see more of this.
But see black people have too much “culture” to do what was done to them. We protest, forgive, let go and persevere still.
Visit the Schomburg, Hueman Bookstore, etc. to learn what a great culture we have. To see that Harlem is more than a cheap place to live with just some chimps on the street.
If enough of you would realize that then no one would have to worry about some stupid shirts.
Again next
harlem
May 21, 2008
Race entered this post ONLY because the guns on the t-shirts are pointed to a white man. The t-shirts infer intimidation and harassment of white people for entering a “black” community. This is wrong. So was Greenwood, so was Jim Crow laws. But 2 wrongs in the past do not make a right. You can argue all you want – Guns and violence are not culture and racism of any form do not belong on t-shirts.
Period.
T
May 21, 2008
Anon, read what I say.
“just that if you want to live in Harlem, before the cops & developers flush it out, get used to how people live in Harlem.”
So accept it until it changes, or leave, or don’t come in the 1st place, or wait until the present culture changes. If you can’t deal with the guns & violence make a choice. Simple. Same choice you made to move here without a Whole Foods and a Banana Republic in Harlem.
If I were to live in say, an Hasidic community that had different values to me as a black person then the same would apply.
I think you understand what I mean. It’s not contradictory.
And…. Let’s look at the barbaric acts of white folks when blacks lived in their vicinity and/or come in their world.
Black Wall Street (look it up Greenwood, Tulsa Okla), lynchings throughout history, Bull Connor, the Howard Beach incident, Emmett Till, Little Rock. I can go on.
That’s learned behavior passed down as well. Instead its a more subtle form white supremacy now. We matters to me is more important because I’m better than you black folks.
Now go find the “converse” of that. Just some shirts?
And I hope the chimpanzee comment was not a veiled racial slur. If so you should be banned from this forum. People revert to such comments when their arguments are weak.
You’re too predictable. Next…
GRF
May 21, 2008
It’s just a local shirt company.
So while they’re expressing their artistic beliefs and just making things the public like to see, there are those fews that have to sit online and do nothing but talk about some cotton and paint.
There’s no ‘community difference’ being made by sitting on some site and talking about the shirt.
Good going.
The brand just got more advertisement.
anon
May 21, 2008
T, Culture is an interesting subject, examples of culture can be seen within groups of chimpanzees, learned behavior passed on to the next generation. I am happy to see you do not agree with the culture of guns and violence but conversely newcomers should accept it as the existing culture. So which one is it going to be, a) accept or b) reject the culture of guns and violence?
T
May 19, 2008
Again, anon you got it wrong. Culture doesn’t always mean “High culture”, The Met, the MOMA, the opera, Soho, Lincoln Center but what the dictionary describes as :
All the ways of life including arts, beliefs and institutions of a population that are passed down from generation to generation. Culture has been called “the way of life for an entire society.” As such, it includes codes of manners, dress, language, religion, rituals, norms of behavior such as law and morality, and systems of belief as well as the art.
Perfect example of misunderstanding & reading my comment from the wrong point of view. Again because the way you see things is the only thing important and you’re not interested in anyone else’s perspective. If in your neighborhood guns are deemed necessary, then guns have value. If in your neighborhood intimidation is necessary to not be a victim then it has value.
Didn’t say I agreed with the culture of guns & violence, just that if you want to live in Harlem, before the cops & developers flush it out, get used to how people live in Harlem. Black folks have to get used to living in your world too when we visit and work in it.
Next comment, anon… I’m ready today:)
stalherz
May 19, 2008
Whoa Whoa Whoa! I was talking about the guns, not race. Had nothing to do with race. Guns don’t see color, just cause the spilling of blood. The sad thing is that this turned into an issue of white and black – which is just what the government wants us to do.
Anyhow, My Father was born two blocks from me up on 162nd street, so this is as much my hood as anyone’s – which it really belongs to the owners of the buildings, so it’s not mine at all.
Just saying that having guns on a t shirt is not a good idea for our youth, but as I said before, they have every right to make them and I have every right to say what I think. That is, after all, the point.
-Stal
anon
May 19, 2008
T – “values and customs”"!??!?!? Perpetuating a culture of violence is a form of “values and customs”???? I guess that must be the “culture” you are talking about.
divine1906
May 19, 2008
“ridiculous” said: the “race baiting of the old Harlem” ??
What the hell exactly does that mean?
Oh I see – your mere presence represents “progress”.
Is that it?
Please……
T
May 19, 2008
1. You’re moving into someone else’s neighborhood with its own values and customs. Get used to something different. Suck it up. Isn’t that what you say to the black community in Harlem? Get over it?
2. If you understand the culture, you wouldn’t take it so seriously.
3. For white folks, black/white dialogue always means the white perspective is right and you should agree. Change that and meet the black community halfway.
4. White folks have LITERALLY run blacks out of with the force of a gun. But hey, that’s not dysfunctional.
5. It’s a story regarding the changing face of Harlem and Uptown Flavor should cover it.
6. Sometimes people feel hostile when people who have ignored them for decades and consider them second class citizens, suddenly decide that they want live where you live and kick you out.
If you want more let me know…
I’ll buy two or three.
anon
May 19, 2008
T-Shirts: a quick and easy way to convey a BS opinion since 1948.
Anonymous
May 19, 2008
Sure, let’s just bury our heads in the sand and pretend that people aren’t really walking down the streets wearing these, rather than have an intelligent dialogue about our experiences and feelings surrounding it. Yeah, that will make it go away and bridge a connection between the old and the new Harlem!
ridiculous
May 19, 2008
why does uptown flavor even post such a propaganda of rascism. Imgine if white people were wearing t-shirts with guns pointed at black people?
This is ridiculous. Even the description of it is beyond joking. come on Uptown – what will you be? someone who supports the progress of the neighborhood or someone who gives into race baiting of the old harlem
uptowner
May 19, 2008
So sad that he thinks he looks cool/good in those t-shirts. And such an effort to match the cap to the t-shirt. Pathetic.
anon
May 19, 2008
Do they have no snitching tees? I’m sure there is much more dysfunctional behavior to be celebrated andworn with pride.
Anonymous
May 18, 2008
I hear you loud and clear. I am not a fan of guns but there is that little issue about the first and second amendments.
stalherz
May 18, 2008
Not sure this is the right message to send to our youth. What the world needs now is not another gun. I would assume the US government would be very pleased to see more glorification of guns.
Not saying that the people who make and wear these don’t have the right to do so. They do. Just not sure what the message is.