So far The Langston has received nothing but praise, but at least one new resident isn’t thrilled with the new half million dollar unit. Our tipster wrote:
So this is what you get for about half a mill’s worth:
1. cockeyed outlets and walls..EVERYTHING IS COCKEYED!
2. chipped wood floors
3. unsanded spackle (I think that’s what you call it)….they spackle everything without sanding it down to a smooth surface…looks lumpy everywhere.
4. unsanded drywall seams …who the heck wants a living room wall where your guests can point out where your wall was pieced together
5. bathroom tiles not set correctly…set about 5/8″ apart. You can literally “fall through the cracks”
6. bathroom tiles not cut correctly, has jagged edges and was grouted into place anyways with about 1″ gap between your tile and the wall…again, your guest can get trapped in your crack.
7. grout spread all over counter tops and not cleaned.
8. walls primed only! or maybe flat paint was used (the cheapest stuff out there)
9. wiring is all screwed up
10. counter tops not cut to spec. Most everything was cut short and then filled with putty (or whatever they use) to fill the 5/8″ to 3/4″ gaps.
So Gotham and Richman LLC are the builders….great job guys for selling “luxury homes” with some of the worst craftsmanship out there! Sure take all the money and leave your customer with a piece of [4 letter word]….don’t worry, I’ll never buy another home from you guys again!
Any advice for how to deal with this situation? Has anyone else experienced similar structural issues? This reminds me of an old post from last year about the Langston where Jesse B. Semple, a character created by Langston Hughes stated, “we don’t have no multi-million dollar frauds.” Maybe we do now…the coffee break is over!
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Related: Langston’s Coffee Break :: Langston starts closings ::
Hamilton_Shareholder
October 19, 2007
Langston Owners beware.
Make sure you elect a strong board of directors. The board at the Hailton couldn’t punch their way out of a paperbag. They are very petty and have their own personal agenda’s–not what’s best for the building. Plus there are major construction defects such as a faulty roof that gotham does not want to honor the warranty.
Let the buyer beware
ac
August 28, 2007
HUGO!!! Where have you been?
Congratulations on your new home!!!
Hugo
August 28, 2007
well, not to discredit any of the folks that had problems at closing.i guess we were lucky.closing went smoothly.in our case there was even money left over at the end and we got money back.i suppose all those prayers my mom made worked out for the best
however, we hit a couple snags afterward.during the walkthrough, the floors were scratched and there were gaps where the walls met the moldings on the floor.and like previous posters mentioned there were some cockeyed elements around the place but they were corrected. some of the items on the punch list were taken care of before closing, but the big ones didn’t get taken care of till a couple weeks after closing.that involved a bit of haggling and many many phone calls.
most of the dust has settled though.all in all, i’m happy with the place.it’s taken a bit of readjustin neighborhood wise. those of you who know me know I was all head over heels for all the new west harlem spots…cafe largo, hudson river cafe…caliente. they’re not as “next door” anymore. so here’s to maroons, oklahoma bbq, sugarhill java, et al. ciao for now my neighbors in west harlem, hello to my new neighbors in sugarhill!
Anonymous
August 1, 2007
There is a lot of misinformation in this list of postings.
1. If you do not buy at market rate, HPD does not subsidize up to the point of market rate. It is still well below market rate. In total, the price is still a huge deal. You are still buyng on discount.
2. You are neglecting to acknoweldge that many, many new constructions at market rate have the very same issues. This is common. It is about being knowledgable to catch things at closing. There are things I didn;t mention at closing, but I know it was my choice. I can’t blame anyone but myself.
3. If you have a good lawyer, they will be able totell you almost exactly how much closing will cost. I bought at Bradhurst Court and mine new exactly.
I hope this adds perspective.
mediaguy74
July 21, 2007
I paid $200. Ouch.
snowe
July 19, 2007
U see, nobody tells you this stuff. I had a blog about buying affordable homes but accidently erased it. I will have to repost and add some more juice.
Alot of people don’t understand the stress that lottery buyers go through. They think we should just be “fortunate.”
Just wait till you move in…you’ll notice more problems. Don’t be shy about asking them to fix it. Don’t worry about the punch list. Make sure they fix your stuff correctly too. they tend to quick fix things just to get you outta way.
I had to tip my title closer $175. I hated it!
Congrats on your new home!!!
Justin
July 19, 2007
p.s.
closing costs for my uni at brownstone lasne were over 20K at the end of the day! they really should tell buyers about that early on in the lottery process. I mean it’s fine, but don’t say, oh, you need 30K to buy this place, tell me I need $50K so i know what i’m getting into! And don’t get me started about kickbacks, etc… Yeah I had $250 bucks for the title closer. Worse though in BL2 the citibank (shittybank) situation was absurd. They ‘steered’ people to use them, when their rates were a full percentage point higher than HSBC! They offered some grants, tax savings, etc. that helped with people’s closing costs, but I ran the numbers and over even just 1 or 2 years the ‘grants’ would have been totally erased in additional interest they’re paying!
Justin
July 19, 2007
you were exactly right, had to pay another 900+ in taxes at closing because the 421-a didn’t go through yet… on top bank is making me pay escrow for future/full-rate tax bill too. Was also told it would be refunded or credited. Shoot with the abatement that $900 already in escrow is worth like 15 years! End of the day closing cots were $2500 higher than the estimates in the offering plan + bank. Oh and then tehre was the 500 moving deposit, they forgot to mention that this the, I dunno, 6 months I’ve been dealing with this!
Anyway, just glad it is done! I move tomorrow…
Oh, as for punch list, as mentioned nothing that major – but a few items (a dented cabinet, cracked stone threshold) still had not been addressed as of my final walkthrough, but it was noted on the punch list and signed by the sponsor to make the replacements, so at least I have it in writing.
Anyway, thanks Snowe… your avice/awareness has helped. they shoudl make a little ‘lottery-buyes’ booklet to give to people to avoid all of this stress!
j
snowe
July 15, 2007
yea, nobody wants to tell you. they all know how much closing cost will be but you won’t get a closing statement till 24 hours b4 closing. You can go online and check the rate but it’s uselss cuz during closing it’ll probably be much more. In my case, I thought my title cost was $6800 but ended up being $8500 at the table. Your title insurance will be based on your home purchase price plus all your subsidies. It’s a very shady industry. Also, your attorney will probably expect you to tip the title closer (there’s alot of kickbacks in the industry). They’ll put it on your closing statement as a tip. If you have to pay the city transfer tax, be prepared.
closing costs will depend on the cost of the property, the mortgage amount, subsidies, if any, and grants, if any. It’s a complicated thing. I tried my best to estimate my closing cost but it ended up being 2-3k more. Your attorney probably won’t be able to tell you about the property tax. Developer informed me after all was done with. I moved in and a week later got my property tax bill for approx. 8K. I was supposed to get a subsidy but since it hasn’t gone through the system yet, I gotta pay the tax and then when the 421-a goes through I can apply for a refudn. You know how that’s gonna go with the city. So much for all my plans to buy new furniture!!! Good thing I moved all my old stuff.
Good luck and keep us all updated.
Justin
July 15, 2007
uh, oh, really?!
I will have to contact my attorney about this… everyone has been cagey on the actual closing costs.. I close Wednesday,s o need to know, especially the taxes. I’m getting 11K closing cost loan and have 12K cash-on hand. When I went through closing costs estimated it was supposed to be 19K (which includes a rate lock extension I had to pay already).
For taxes are you referring to the mortgage tax? That should be based on my loan amount and not loan + HPD subsidy, right?
snowe
July 13, 2007
Furthermore, if yo’re lucky, the 421 went through already. If not, you’ll have to pay the full property tax and then apply for refund. It was about 8K for me. They don’t tell you that up front. They wait till you finish closing and then the say “by the way….”
snowe
July 13, 2007
Exactly…we can’t just flip and make a hefty profit. we have to live in our home for some time so it only makes sense that the workmanship is good enough to last us for years. But most people don’t understand this. During closing we have to pay taxes based on the total price, not the price after subsidy. You’ll be hit with the title insurance. If you don’t have enough cash, make sure you take a little more in mortgage to cover. Be prepared!!! and good luck!
Justin
July 12, 2007
ps, i’m also a lottery purchaser, and don’t really think the ‘you’re lucky’ attitude should fly on part of the developers or the purchaser… it is a lot of freaking work to get through the lottery process – and at the end of the day we are saddled as well with the obligation for heft HPD liens on our units. The purchase price is low, but the overall debt/obligation is near to the market rates. The city has subsidized the entire development expressly for this (unfair differentiation) purpose…
Justin
July 12, 2007
had my walk through at brownstone lane today – definitely some issues – leaking sink, a cabinet front needing replacement, some touch up here/there, a malfunctioning lock… but nothing as major/difficult to fix as those listed/shown at this unit at the Langston.
for what it’s worth, thank you for making more aware of this issue – i may have not been as discerning and more forgiving (‘it’s just a scratch’) in the walkthrough with this post!
AKA
July 11, 2007
Oh yes, it’s not a catch-22. There is a solution.
AKA
July 11, 2007
#19…So you’re the idiot that developers love to take advantage of, if you’re not a developer yourself trying to justify your BS. You’re the type that feel you should hand over your money and accept shit. Obviously, you’re not too bright. Nobody put a gun to their heads forcing them to build affordable units. They made a deal with the city to do so and they do so for one reason–money. They don’t do anybody any favors so you can stop flattering them. Affordable buyers are not beggars and didn’t get their units for free. So go ahead be as stupid as you are and continue to let them live off your hard earned money. Go ahead and give him your whole bank account and go live on the streets yourself, since you feel that it’s okay that the unit is compromised. After a couple of seasons, you probably won’t have much of a home left to live in. Better yet, you probably can’t afford the common charges because the building is so messed up.
True there are thousands of applicants, but majority can’t even get a mortgage even if the price of the home was low.
Refund the money (if you can) and tell buyers to go away…I’m sure you didn’t factor in the carrying cost of the unit that it would cost you to get another buyer to close on the home, especially when you have to go through the whole process again with HPD. So in reality, it’s cheaper to just fix the little problems that the buyer has than go the other route
By the way, for most, their only path to ownership is NOT lottery. Most put their application in to press their luck. But it’s not their ONLY path. If it was your only path, then maybe that’s why you feel they did you a favor.
Get educated sweetie.
Anonymous
July 11, 2007
l8, the problem is it’s a catch 22.
Even with all the imperfections, the screws ups, even if fixing the shoddy work cost you $l0K+, just being lucky enough to secure the right to buy, be it shares in a co-op, or a condo is a highly sought after and prized value THOUSANDS would love to have.
If you’re a market rate buyer, you have the right to be bitch. If you benefit from a lottery, a subsidy, HPD stuff, you’re lucky as hell even with the problems and thousands would like to take your slot.
If I was a developer, and a lottery derived owner complained, I would offer them a full refund and tell them to get out, I have ONE THOUSAND others willing to take your slot, no shut up and don’t bother me.
That’s real life. I co-own in the Renaissance, an HPD project. 290 or so units, they had over 6,000 applications for 290 slots, that was in ’90, today? I am guessing for subsidized lottery developments, for every available slot there might be 40 – 50 applicants for that slot.
It’s sad, but the truth is when you only path to ownership is lottery, subsidized, etc. in Manhattan, you’re a begger, and beggers can’t be choosey, why? 40 – 50 other beggers will gladly take your slot, the law of the jungle wins in Manhattan.
It’s true, developers set out from the start to build a compromised development when they know what market its destined for.
snowe
July 10, 2007
#17– It is one thing to state in the offering plan that they won’t be responsible for “minor” imperfections…but it’s another when they ACTUALLY deliver a home with all the freakin minor imperfections they listed. That just proves that they set out to build a crappy home. It’s the principle here that’s important. Next time, they’ll learn to not put such a stupid section in the offering plan becuz buyers will know that’s what they will get.
#16–there’s a big difference between buying and renting. you’ll see. when you rent, it’s almost okay to hear your neighbor..but when you buy, you will realize that’s not acceptable.
People, you’ve got to stop settling for less. Stop letting these developers get away with their crime. You work hard for your money, don’t let them do this to you!
Kevin
July 10, 2007
snowe: Thanks for the information. I’ll have to be more careful when I do my walk-through..
The post had me looking through the offering plan and although it states there is a 1 year warranty on the workmanship, they also have a section that states they aren’t responsible for “minor” imperfections. It looks like anything short of totally destroyed they’ll consider it minor..
btw for those who are interested, this information can be found on pg 68-69 in the offering plan.
suttonier
July 10, 2007
great. I’m buying in the Sutton next door (already had walkthroughs) and though the apartment looked fine to me it’s sad to know what I can look forward to.
fwiw, I currently live in another new construction HPD building (a rental) & though I have experienced no drastic problems am constantly reminded of the low-level construction (& lack of insulation – I hear EVERYTHING) so am ready to deal with buying into this type of place … just sad to hear that it sounds like things will be even worse in the new apt.
Anonymous
July 10, 2007
I used to live in the Hamilton across the street and can testify that conditions there are no better. I will never live in another Gotham building, my favorite shortcut of theirs was not installing any insulation between apartments, i got to know my neighbours far too well.
hj
July 10, 2007
I’m a broker and I noticed all of these things at the open house for the Langston. I had originally gotten one of the homes thru the lottery but we had too much on our plate to buy at the time. I remember when I went to the open house thinking how good it was that I had not gone thru with buying a unit in the building. The shoddy work was apparent even without an official walk-thru.
snowe
July 9, 2007
Hey guys, I’m the owner of this apartment. I’ve asked them to fix my stuff but they keep throwing the punch list in my face. I couldn’t see all the problems during the walk-thru. Some problems I brought up but was told flat out that it won’t be fixed. Some didn’t get fixed although it was on the punch list. But now that I tell them about these problems, they throw the punch list in my face. Screw the punch list. It’s not like I’ve lived here for years. I just moved in so don’t feel that it’s too much to ask. But really, what kind of contractor would put down a crooked piece of tile know that it doesn’t fit??? Please don’t keep your mouth shut that the developer can continue to do what they do best–sell you cheap quality for your hard earned money.
[1 Attachment] LovelyDay
July 9, 2007
I second the suggestion of engaging the assistance of HPD – assuming that the purchase is via one of their subsidized efforts.When I purchased my townhome a couple of years ago, even after all of the initial problems caught by my inspector and corrected after a push by my attorney before I closed, subsequently, a new issue appeared with the house and so, instead of first dropping some dough on a new attorney, I contacted the HPD administrator in charge of my development and the issue was rectified.
NewToHarlem
July 9, 2007
This is very disappointing since I thought this building was of decent quality. I will be sure to pay extra attention during my walk-through in August. It will be interesting to hear from other Langston residents who already inspected their unit.
Anonymous
July 9, 2007
I don’t understand why people feel that they should settle just because it’s manhattan. You guys are the main reason why these developers continue to sell you shit.
illoquentgent
July 9, 2007
well, this really sucks. i’m going to have a very interesting walk-through. thanks for all the useful advice you guys
FriendlyNeighbor
July 9, 2007
I own a co-op across the street at the Hamilton. It too was built by Gotham, and a number of our units had problems. Gotham addressed those issues, but only after our board nagged them to death. Gotham sucks- they must have naked pictures of the mayor’s girlfriend to keep winning these contracts.
I looked at a few apartments in the Langston, and your bathrooms are EXACTLY the same as ours- truly the Gotham touch. (Except the master bath with the hottub, of course).
File your complaints in time and then get ready to fight.
But thanks for bringing the Starbucks to 145th, we love it!
And you’re still getting a good deal in Manhattan.
Anonymous
July 9, 2007
Well, you won’t be able to catch everything in a walk-thru. As you live in it, you’ll find things. So they should fix it for you if they’re professional enough. Their reputation is on the line here.
Anonymous
July 9, 2007
it’s not that they didn’t get paid in full for the units. They get the full price of the units right? When HPD subsidizes it, HPD pays the developer. Am I correct on this?
Uptown
July 9, 2007
imo the person is handling the matter right by documenting it. however you can be assured this is not isolated to this unit, i am sure most fixtures in most units are not even and there is a myriad of common flaws. Developers rely on new owners not communicating with each other and getting organized. From my experience with the Renaissance, people are relunctant to accept their new place has shoddy work.
this person needs to communicate the flaws, have other tenants closely examine their unit – and you’ll see a common pattern of shoddy work across the units, etc. and have a much better leveraged position when the litigation starts. If the new owners don’t communicate with each other, the developer wins.
Example and a common one. After month of running dishwashers, I would be surprised if a very high percentage don’t have serious leaks needing fixing, service.
Get a level, a measuring level, take it around your counter tops, door frames, just take a look at actually how straight and level the entire place is, everything that’s been installed, you’ll be surprised.
The owners need to conduct their own inventory, then they should talk to the boards of other buildings the developer did, I am sure there is a trail of litigation, experienced law firms that know the developer and have sued the developer before, etc.
No need to randomly get an attorney, this has to be collectively handled as litigation is expensive and I am sure the flaws are shared across all the owners. The idea is getting resolution, the developer will only do that in the face of a number of tenants with solid cases to the point where the developer can see a judgement against them. You basically have to place a gun to the head of the developer to get a response.
All this is common, just talk the boards of Rosa Parks, Tubman, etc. The Dwyer, LoftI24, etc. they will all have problems too and litigation, pretty much par for the course. And when you have this lotter driven housing, you can count on major flaws.
Justin
July 9, 2007
yeah, you should have opportunity in new conctruction to do a ‘punch list’ in advance of closing – that it’s oficially noted what should be corrected, especially major things liek cracked tiles or obviously poor construction.
Some things though are standard for new construction – like the contractor’s paint/primer. Why would a builder pay for expensive paint when most people are going to paint or wallpaper to their own taste anyway? As for how clean it is from teh construction, ‘broom clean’ is the most they will usually do.
But yeah, generally sounds like that developer/contractor is not concerned at all with quality. If htey don’t address your concerns then def. get your attorney ready…
Uptown
July 9, 2007
Nothing unusual – heavily subsidized projects have enormous short cuts, shoddy work, etc. Pretty standard for Harlem. I co-own at the Renaissance Bldg, it’s a wreck too. Not one outlet was straight, all cockeyed, the border of the wall frame is not even, go any any doorway of any unit and you will see cracks going to the ceiling.
I learned developers use “popcorn” on the ceilings because it’s fast and hides flaws too, as we saw once we removed ours. Not straight lines or perfectly flat ceilings, etc. Do you have popcorn? How’s the sound? A crummy thing about the place I have over there is you can hear the toilets, dishwashers, sinks, etc. of neighbors on all sides.
Of course buying in on the Renaissance was basically a give-away so I can’t complain too much. Just wait till your place “settles” goes through a couple seasons, you’ll learn of all sorts of flaws that require a couple of seasons to surface. It’s hit and run development, law suits are common, join the club.
Good Luck – Takes about 5 years to lean of all the crap work, developers expect to get sued, and most new developments in Harlem have sued their developer, again, what you’re seeing is common.
lovelyday2u
July 9, 2007
Oh my! So, your inspector didn’t catch any of this during your walk-thru? How about just asking the builder to come in and talk with you about correcting things.
Also, look at your paperwork to see what if anything was mentioned per warranty.Usually, unless your attorney specified “soft item expectations (quality of carpentry) the builder will balk; however, even if that is the case, have your attorney go to bat for you.