The emergency meeting that took place last night was apparently well attended. The comment section has a few insightful thoughts about what took place. In our inbox today was the following run down of the meeting:
Everyone who was invited to the community forum said that crime has dropped considerably in our neighborhood. Those of us that live near the Mount Morris Park Landmarked District…were given the numbers to reach our captains.
Captain Edward Caban – 25th
office – 212.860/6549
cell- 646.772.9688email – ECaban@nypd.org
Captain Dwayne Montgomery
office – 212.678.1604
cell – 646.210.6256Both said that if there are any problems, feel free to call them anytime about noise complaints, officer, yada, yada.
I don’t know if the community meeting was successful, but the captains were open, so that meant a lot.
As for the Mount Morris Meeting…Joe Holland did show up to the meeting. Very interesting is all I can say. He stated that since it was a church and they were doing this as a private developer…they had Private rights as a development not to get an environmental statement. Meaning, they didn’t need to get a special approval to build a 28 story structure. (Which will be the highest building in the Harlem Community…taller than the Harlem State office building.) They also stated that they had “taken into consideration” the park, because it is a selling point, but not the affect that the building would have on the park. Mr. Holland could not address what would happen with the school where the church members are currently worshiping.
Mr. Holland also stated that it was the responsibility of the church to reach out to the community and explain what was happening. Mr. Don Williams stated since the organization’s, Mount Morris Park Community Improvement Association, existence Bethel Gospel Assembly has had NO COMMUNICATION with them. Also, since the majority of the parishioners of Bethel Gospel Assembly are commuters, they didn’t think that they really cared. Mr. Holland stated that he and his LLC group were under the impression that the church and community members were in active conversation.
Joe Holland owns the eye sore on 125th on 5th avenue across from the Body Shop. It formerly housed the restaurant LaFamille and Ben and Jerry’s. I don’t know the whole gist, but he let things go…and we lost both and 5th Avenue. business. He also owned a building that housed Harlem Travel. That building is now the condominium on 124
Here are some other facts he threw out…
• The 1st 13 floors are for the church. The church is on floors 1-5 (with a1800 seat sanctuary.) the remaining 8 floors are to be rented out at the church’s discretion (47 apartments).
• The remaining apartments in the building are to be sold as condominiums.
• The subsurface garage will house 140 cars. 10 of the spaces have already been reserved for the pastor and his administration.
• There will be a swimming pool.
• The architect is FX Fowle.
• As of this past weekend, apartments are being sold for around $725 per sq foot.(44 units have been sold by June 26th.)
Related: A sketch of the suspect has been released. You can see it on NY1.
uptownflavor
July 3, 2007
Anonymous #16, this forum is moderated not censored — there is a clear difference. Please see the guidelines tab at the top of the page for clarification about our commenting policy. The bottom line is that we don’t subject our posters to verbal assault by anonymous posters (i.e. trolls.) There are other “unfiltered” forums that you can visit if you disagree with our policy.
Thanks for reading.
Hugo
June 29, 2007
I think that we’re getting lost in this whole naming issue. I understand that there are some bruised sensitivities when it comes to this issue. It seems some people are trying to imply that some people want to call the park one thing vs another to either strip it of or strongly enforce its “blackness”. I think this is being a bit overstated and borderline scandal-seeking. We’re sincerely missing the big picture. Whatever the hell you call it, it will be affected by the building structure. 123uptownside has made THE POINT. When builders align themselves with non-profit organizations they have much more latitude. Namely, bypassing reports or studies on envirnonmental consequences or making assurances as to the ecological impact on a geographical location.
Now, we know that the harlem and its congregations have an inseparable history and legacy. The churches in many ways have been the conduits and arteries for all things harlem, especially when it comes to politics and real estate. I think the days Adam Clayton Powel, Jr. incarnate this idea of empowering Harlem and its pastors advocating justice for an underserved community. But you also have other aspects. Just look at all the new constructions sponsored by the Abyssinian Church and the real estate office at HCCI. While in all fairness they do provide affordable housing, it’s no secret they are major real estate players in Harlem…especially now!
In light of the churches’ influence it would seem that it is up to the parishioners of Bethel Gospel Assembly and other churches to voice these environmental concerns or if they are not…become concerned. If they don’t care about it, these types of deals will continue to take place creating eyesore structures affecting the natural beauty of the park. As stated in the report above, there seemed to be “no communication” on behalf of BGA about that issue.
And pertaining the crime situation, while I think it was tactful for the precinct to at least address the community in some type of public forum it would seem not much was done to empower the community to actively help law enforcement in creating a safer community. This could have been the perfect opportunity for significantly strengthening civilian and law enforcement relations in light of the No-Snitching fiasco of the recent past.
Anonymous
June 28, 2007
Harlem is incredibly fragile, this forum and blog is censored, it’s amazing how people are annoyed and afraid with speech. A secure community allows total flow and readers can discern roses from thorns. Unfortunately not here.
123uptownside
June 28, 2007
Re :Anonymous #12
If you have something to say just say it the lectures are unecessary.
my comment
If you listened to what was said it was stated and anyone can verify it that by partnering with a non-profit (namely a church) you are not held to the normal standards of building height and occupancy quotas.
Almost EVERY new development in harlem is in connection with a non-profit. Now who should you put your faith in.
anon
June 28, 2007
#12–you just totally skipped over what i wrote about who calls the park what. it’s amazing. you just want to hate the “newcomers” so much that you’re gonna hold them responsible for everything.
well im telling you, i was actually at the meeting, and it was the old timers who were insisting on calling it mt morris park.
now if i want to know what the name of the park is, all i have to do is look out my window and see it written on the entrance to the park. so i dont need your lessons.
what it all comes down to is how easly distracted the community is. people wasted their breath when they had the top law enforcement and electeds from the community in front of them to argue about what the damn park should be called.
i personally, could care less—and you know what–i think i can speak for lots of “newcomers” and confirm for you—WE DONT CARE!!! there is not some conspiracy out there to get people to change the name of the park. if that’s what you want to waste your time railing against, be my guest, but it’s just another exmaple of why you’ll be left behind…because you have your eye off the ball.
anon
June 28, 2007
#10, The reason for the emergency meeting was NOT because one botched robbery murder.
It was because of a rash of unrelated gun fire aka shootings.
Yes there have been tragedies in the last few years WITHOUT emergency meetings.
The difference this time was a rash of gun fire aka shootings at different locations, within hours of each other, which has not happened in recent history.
Do you understand why the emergency meeting was called now and not for those other incidents.
Anonymous
June 28, 2007
Again, with the last statement we’ve moved away from the real issue which was the meeting, not the name of the area or the park. Just to so that you understand — the park was renamed Marcus Garvey Park in the ’70s but the area is still referred to as the Mount Morris Park Historical District. It’s a little confusing but once you understand the difference it’s really not that hard to distinguish the two names. Marcus Garvey is the name recognized by the City of New York and the citizens who fought to change the name. The newcomers seem to be on the ones confused.
anon
June 28, 2007
actually—the name of the park came up at the meeting. and you’ll be interested to know, it was a black vs. black argument. almost everyone was saying mt morris and when someone (black) stood up and said ‘It’s called marcus garvey STOP calling it mt morris. mt morris is the nieghborhood and the park is marcus garvey’ the old timers were having none of it–shouting back that the original name was mt morris and they’ll call it that if they want to.
those of us who live in the nabe have come to realize there are lots of divergent opinions about what name gets used, and if you want to avoid conflict, justt say “the park” and move on with your life.
Anonymous
June 28, 2007
8 & 9, it’s hard to take you two credibly and or seriously. was it a year ago when the white guy was harassed & chased into the street, OneTwentyFifth and hit & killed by a motorist as a consequence of being harassed, he was a student I believe. That was basically murder. 9 or so months ago wasn’t another white guy at about 2 or 3 am hit and killed by a speeding motorist in an SUV on Lenox & a Hundred and Twenty First – ish? Hit & Run Homodicide basically.
This may be a newsflash for you but there was not one, not a single “community meeting” with these two killings in Harlem.
This meeting reflected the fears of the community and functioned to reassure each other that all is well (whether it in fact is or is not – it was a confidence building event for each other that’s all).
In the real world, if you live in Harlem or anywhere you know there are lots of walking timebombs, people just itching for you to provoke them. As such is our world you can’t have friction or disagreement or conflict with anyone. If you bump someone’s should walking down the street, immediately turn and apologize whether or not you were at fault, that’s basically how you have to live in the City.
We live in a world where people can perceive the slightest unintended bump or whatever as a personal “dis” and respond with anger, force, violence. Lots of people are “on the edge”. If someone is robbing you – give them your wallet or jewels uncontested. It’s about not inciting the criminal to pull the trigger. People pull triggers for the most trivial nonsensical reasons.
Crime has been in existence a long time, it will always be in existence. Things in Harlem are not changing in our lifetime. You simply can’t have friction, or beef, etc. with those you encounter. Why? Those you encounter have all sorts of psychological dysfunctions and are operating on a whole other plane and level. They are disconnected to their behavior and it’s consequences,they don’t care if the death penalty exist, etc.
By the way, Uptown Flavor has a major hard on for Mt. Morris Park being called Marcus Garvey Park. At this meeting did anyone refer to it as Marcus Garvey? If not, can we consider that branding and name officially dead?
One more Harlem victory for the White man. The erasing of the name of the park in whole to where even Black people disregard Marcus Garvey.
anon
June 27, 2007
#7, This emergency meeting was held, not because of one murder, but because of a rash of shootings over the weekend, thank god the death toll was not higher.
Sorry you give similar importance to real estate and loss of life.
anon
June 27, 2007
To get back to the shootings, sorry but I think any life lost is more important than sunlight in the park and real estate developments.
The real issue was raised by an elderly lady towards the end, there are just too many guns on the street.
Some suggestions to combat this.
1) Make sure there is a database to connect the gun used in a crime in NY to the dealer that sold them in Virginia or whatever state that loves their guns, I think Mr. Bloomberg is working on this.
2) Keep up the stop and frisk by police, I’m sure this makes criminals think twice about carrying a gun.
3) These sporting events seem to be connected with the weekend shootings, have metal detectors at the sporting events and subway stations so these kids know to leave their guns at home.
Just my $.02
Anonymous
June 27, 2007
Well to be fair, the real estate dealings are also the crime, are they not? Abyssinia also has their church developer deal in the works. What’s going on here?
4 Church Developer Deals? This is more than land acquisition, I bet there is a creative intermixing of tax/finance matters to gain from by having a portion of the development be to the tax exempt partner Church.
I don’t quite understand the meeting about the murder though. I seems to have been done only to make people feel good about each other and convince each other that it’s safe.
I say this because murders happen in NYC all the time and rarely does a local micro nabe call for an emergency meeting, they continue ob with their normal community watch programs and let the police handle the matter (usually).
If someone is murdered in Tribeca tonight, there will be no emergency meeting of Tribeca people. I think this only illustrates how fragile the community is, the fears, the concerns, the sense that it’s indeed not safe.
Safe secure nabes are not shook by tragedy, they keep it moving. Nothing’s wrong with having a meeting, however it speaks more so to the fears in that nabe, not the security, it’s scared people needing to reassure each other all is well.
ac
June 27, 2007
well the first 2 hours were about the shooting. then that meeting was finished, and people who wanted to remain behind and talk more did. then others who wanted to hear from holland could go to the other meeting.
what i objected to was that people were so easily distracted by all the quality of life stuff. it’s like they’ve all had these pent up complaints and they finally got an audience…but the meeting was supposed to be about the shootings, but instead was a debate about whether or not bbqs in the park are a good thing or bad thing.
i understand that the solutions to the crime issues are difficult to find…and so it’s easier to talk about bbq or noise or whatever, because those things are easy and tangible…but the meeting got so off the point.
and as a fairly new resident, i personally felt really ignored. it’s like, if they dont know your name, and you havent lived there your whole life, you’re not allowed to join the discussion.
not unlike this board at times.
Anonymous
June 27, 2007
In defense of #2, the meeting was called to address the violence that took place over the weekend but it seemed to get overshadowed by the real estate dealings. Perhaps they could have postponed the visit by Joe Holland so that they could focus exclusively on the murder and crime.
Anonymous
June 27, 2007
No. 2, the blog entry content is 80% on the development, can you see the 3 paragraphs above? The person is speaking to the content of the blog entry. You might want to get a grip along with an understanding how blog responding works, people address the content, that’s exactly what No. 1 did.
There are a number of interesting mixes of Church-Developer in Harlem, the Churches of course own the land, The Lenox is a Developer-Church deal, that Church on 5th Ave is to with the Rhapsody, now this Church.
I guess if you’re a developer, the Churches in Harlem is where you target.
AnonY
June 27, 2007
@ commenter #2 I don’t think what was made clear was that there were 2 separate meetings. One dealt with the community shootings and the other was the Mount Morris Park Improvement Association’s meeting where Joe Holland was invited.
Other than that, yes the meeting was well attended, but what did you get out of it? Personally I didn’t get much from either the politicians who were invited or the police representatives. All the could tell us that crime was down and they are doing the best they can with the resources that they have been provided with. I don’t know if you were there for the whole meeting, but even the head of Manhattan North tried to throw in a plug for people to come and join the force.
I can say I was not happy about the brush off from life long residents who were elected officials. Granted, as a person who lived most of their lives across the street from the park…it is safer, BUT, i think there is a lot more that needs to be done…IMMEDIATELY. No one should lose their life going to the bathroom.
anon
June 27, 2007
The emergency meeting was well attended, and well moderated; the topic was the murder of a man from the Bronx and several shootings over the weekend. I don’t remember the meeting being about sunlight in the park and future developments.
Get a grip, one person lost his life, could have been more, this tragedy is mot a vehicle to vent about developments.
Anon
June 27, 2007
Classic “inside deal” with no concern whatsoever of impact. I did not think you could build 28 floors adjacent to a park, in a quaint district of Harlem without even a minimal environmental statement of some kind. Could you pick a more ideal location to block sun and produce shadow on that park? I think not.
Sounds like Joe Holland should have saved everyone’s time and said, “We’re going to do what we want, the community had no voice in what we do, it’s that simple”.
I wonder how the Church and their tax exempt status plays into all this as well. Seems to me if you enjoy tax exempt status, consistent with that is an obligatory measure due dilligence of impact of your development.
Developments producing shadow and blocking the sun is a major issue in New York City, and that’s when they have that effect on other buildings, creating this effect on a public park is not a minor result of this development. It’s really outrageous that this is taking place with no environmental impact whatsoever, not even dialog.
The Lesson? Start your own Church, become tax exempt, then blur the lines of non-profit and profit by building your own development with your own rules – to hell with the community, the adjacent parks, etc.