British buying into East Harlem has drawn the ire of tenants (follow up) [Sun]
Two new wine stores coming to the area [Harlem Fur]
Posted in: New/Openings, Real Estate
The Scoop: Wine stores and Brits invade Harlem
Posted on April 4, 2007 by D. Bell
Anon
April 5, 2007
Vinny, I think you missed the point. HV has a niche which is partially why they have been successful. You can go to every other corner in Harlem and pick up a bottle of Yellow Tail. They specialize in wines by viniers (sp?) that are little known, especially when they are run by people of color and women. I think that is admirable and somewhat risky. If you don’t like the wine selection there are liquor stores all over Harlem that can sell you a bottle of riesling or Yellow Tail. Some folks are willing to be an extra dollar or two to support a small winery. If you’ve had a conversation with the owners, then you know they have a mission and their store is way it is by design. They aren’t trying to compete with Trader Joes and Costco.
VinnyVino
April 5, 2007
rmk, the $6 bottle of wine at HV? That’s quite good? I am in this business space, know HV inventory well, have no idea what this $6 could be. Now I have not been in HV in a year however I thought there lowest price wine was S Africa’s Indaba at about $7.99 or $8.99? The best $6 wine in Harlem is Australia’s Black Swan Riesling which can be had for $5.50 at 135th & 7th, next to that new Popeye’s.
HV does not have a vast selection by any standard of wine shops, I can name at least 2 dozen wines in any price bracket that a standard mid or upscale Manhattan wine shop stocks that HV does not (for reasons I won’t get into).
In the spirit of spreading some Harlem love and support around, take the time to one day visit Madison Ave. Wines, next to the Harlem Tea Room. You won’t get the upscale feel of HV when you walk in, you will see at least _twice_ the inventory selection and variety at the $10 and under price bracket.
An example of a standard nice wine most all good wines shops in the best places of Manhattan will stock is Goats Do Roam (S. Africa) at about $8 – $10 / bottle. You can get that at Madison Ave Wines, not HV, I can give you 2 or 3 dozen examples like this. Some people want what they know, even if it’s as every day basic as Yellowtail. Kind of like when I walk into a clothing store, I don’t necessarily want this fancy or obscure pair of jeans, a basic pair of Levi 502 button flys will do, I’m familiar with them, that’s really all I am looking for. Please don’t tell me about this Jean or that Jean.
If you visit enough wine shops in Manhattan, you’ll see HV has a narrow inventory – selection and they’re all about the “theater” of it, “the show”, which is fine, I am not hating, simply lifting the curtain and showing you what’s really going on.
HV’s stage is their open floor space. Most fine wine shops will not have that percentage ratio of open space per inventory (they have inventory on the floor, not a stage – for events). Example, visit that very nice wine store at 96th & Broadway next to Symphony Space. They probably have literally 15 times the inventory and selection of HV in about 25% more of the space. You won’t see vast open space on the sales floor, you will see racks and racks of wines. That store too will gladly deliver to all of Harlem and their prices are actually competitive with Trader Joes.
You’ll find HV socres highest with non-wine people, those dazzled by the theater. That’s taking your eye off the ball, if you’re a real wine buyer. The ball is selection, vintages, options. Most wine buyers like me buy by the case, on-line or on the telephone, have it delivered, and never see the retail storefront.
People have a completely inaccurate perception of the wine business, taste, and upscale. If you go to the tony Upper East Side, trendy Tribeca, wherever, you will find that most high income earning Manhattan people pay generally $10 – $15 for a bottle of wine, that’s it. The other half? On the weekends they pick up cases of this or that are whatever warehouse store they got to (Costco, Sam’s, etc.)
Anonymous
April 4, 2007
rmk, what is the name of this very good $6 wine @ HV? As I recall HV’s least expensive wind is S.Africa’s Indaba and they sell it for about $1 – $2 more than many places. IMO the best thing you can buy in Harlem @ $6 is on 135th & 7th next to that new Popeye’s. They sell a Reisling, Australian Black Swan for $5.50. I’ve not been in HV in a year +.
Sometimes people want what they know and HV does not allow you to do this. Just a regular bottle of Yellowtail for example, they’re not looking to explore, they want the familiar and you can’t do this @ HV.
All winestores deliver & offer the 10% off case deal. The fact is HV does not have much selection at all on any standard. I can easily name 20 – 30 standard $10 – $20 wines that most Manhattan wine ships serving discriminating buyers stock (for good reason). And in the below $10 market, the pickings are unbelievable slim and well known staples are absent.
Goat Do Roam (S. Africa) for example is a “must” for any mid or upscale wine shop in Manhattan, be it in Tribeca, UES, etc. anywhere. Expect to pay $8 – $10 for a bottle, it’s a lovely selection int he price range. Can’t find it @ HV.
This is not about cheerleading for HV, I like the owners a lot and will cater the wine bar, however as a sheer wine shop business model, it’s designed to give you an “experience” and tell you what to buy. That’s not most wine buyers.
I do support Harlem based Black owned wine shop Madison Ave. wines and the owner, “Dean”. Yes, Madison Ave. wines stocks more variety than HV. However Madison Avenue wines is not trying to be the same type of business as HV. Madison Avenue wines is next to The Harlem Tea Room. There’s room for both styles – approaches for retailing wine. HV is actually strives on selling to the corporate market quite extensively.
What’s interesting here with the arrival of Fino Vino is I suspect they’re going to be part of a large wine buying collective and will significantly undercut HV prices. The film Sideways blow up Pinot Noir wines and will be a good indicator in the $15 – $25 price range, comparing the two from the two stores.
However take note good people, lots of Black owned business that committed to Harlem when no one else would have been pushed out by (shall I call them) “new arrivals” (now that the market is developed and there). I could name hardware stores and clothing shops, etc. and so forth.
Now the popular argument has always been that it’s not about “race”, it’s about “green”. Now here was have a Black owned “early adopter” in committing to the “new Harlem” now suddenly challenged itself by a business that will be much like itself.
Commenter Kayken is right. In all of Harlem, just look where Fino Vino is perching itself. You know darn well they have strategy to and it will bite into HV sales. The only question is to how much?
And I remember when I had to catch the #2 or #3 to get to 96th to find a decent wine shop. These are interesting times.
ac
April 4, 2007
gotta agree with all of you. i love HV, and i dont even drink wine that much. i find myslef looking for reasons to go there. they are so nice and easy to approach, which for an ignorant non-wine person like myself is such a breath of fresh air. plus i love their unique selection. makes it seem like i know what im doing when i show up with a bottle from there.
Hugo
April 4, 2007
Well, it’s hard to replicate HV. You can try to copy decor or presentation…even wine lists, but it comes down to the folks who work there. Their approachability mixed with there extensive knowledge makes it hard to top.
Kayken
April 4, 2007
I agree, I like the variety at Harlem Vintage. My favorite bottle of wine is a $10 SB that I can’t find anywhere else. I’ve turned other friends who do not live in Harlem on to this wine, as well, and they now travel to the store for this and other great finds. I also like that the owners and staff are approachable and knowledgeable, yet neither haughty nor snobbish re: their knowledge of wine. The wine tasting events are nice, but simply, HV provides a great, needed service.
Frankly, I’m offended that another store is opening so close to HV. It seems like such a blatant, deliberate, opportunistic, copycat move on their part. Harlem is vast, and there are plenty other areas in Harlem that could benefit from a nearby wine store. I wish them well, but I’ll continue to patronize HV.
rmk
April 4, 2007
Two of my favorite wines at Harlem Vintage are $6 and $9. I think that’s extremely affordable. (And they are good too!) The people there are really helpful and friendly and I LOVE their color-coded star sticker system (green=organic, gold=vinyard owned by person of color, red=vinyard owned by women, blue=kosher). I like the fact that when faced with a choice of two wines, I can choose to support businesses owned by women and/or people of color. Also, HV delivers for FREE, and you get 10% off if you buy a case. Their website is fantastic too, with a very helpful filter. You can place orders online and have your wine delivered to you that evening. No, I don’t work for HV, but I am a HUGE fan. Unless the new store is *amazing*, HV will continue to get my business.
I have not been to any of their events, but I think wine stores, like yarn stores and other niche markets, tend to thrive on building a community and personal relationships with their customers. I think it’s great that they have “events” and support local artists, I just don’t have time to go to any of them.
Anonymous
April 4, 2007
Vino Fino on Amsterdam and 122nd? Harlem Vintage? Jai Jai (owner) is overly aggressive (from her hustlin’ Wall St. days). When they first opened they had nothing below $15, Only later they brought in some $9 – $14 inventory. Jai Jai & Eric (other owner) know their stuff, their business model is not a fit for me (focusing on “boutique” wines / small wineries). HV’s prices are high but someone’s gotta pay for that nice decor I suppose. HV is heavy on centering on events, etc. around their business as opposed to focusing on wines. Most wine buyers are not looking for “an experience” at the retail level.
I hope Vino Fino focuses on bringing excellent value to the neighborhood. Not all wine at Trader Joe’s is 2 Buck Chuck. For example I’ve bought at TJ’s 2005 Willamette Valley Pinot Noir @ $10 and have never seen it in Manhattan for less than $19.
Most wine store business are members of “collectives” to match the wholesale buying power of a TJ’s. I like Eric & Jai Jai a lot however they would do well to watch folks exiting the subways on Saturday and Sunday in the late afternoon. Do that around 125th, 110th, and 116th on the 2 & 3 train line and you will see lots of Harlemites with Trader Joe bags of wine, lots and lots of wine. Those are in place Harlem dollars going to Union Square/14th Street to buy value (not ambiance or “experience”).
If Vino Fino focuses on a wine buying experience, HV will be tough to beat. However if they focus on value I believe there is a market for it at that location.