Hands down this week’s hot topic on the virtual stoop has been the alleged suburbanization of New York, most recently Harlem and the surrounding areas. The discourse in this thread delved into some deep seeded issues that are affecting the ever increasing changes taking place in Harlem. Since this thread has garnered so many responses I can’t choose just a few so you’ll just have to head over to read them yourself.
Note: Thanks to all the commentators who all had great points to contribute. It goes to show that you can have an intelligent debate about this issue without people being disrespectful toward one another.
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Posted in: Stoop
M.F.
March 15, 2007
123 … Indeed you may have missed my last point. In referring to those who should enjoy the ride, I am specifically speaking to those people, black, white, other or another, who are complaining about the rising costs, the seemingly overwhelming flux of new stores and such … to really just enjoy Harlem because no matter what Harlem is still very much enjoyable. Enjoy it because unless you where born, raised and lived here, you don’t really know how we survived with so little.
And yeah … I do own and I am happy I got in before the prices where out our reach. Is all good?? Well, to wake up and not have empty bottles and cans surrounding the front door of the building; to not have piles of tobacco in the corners of the elevators moistened with spit; to not have to dodge puddles of beer or urine in the stairways; to not have to wonder whose walking up behind me; not have to endure my neighbors ode to every rap album made until 2am; not to have to see the worst graffiti art (I am a reformed graf artist: Jester 134!) written on every open space … yeah some things are good with me for sure. What’s missing are those folks who you just knew… basically knew them forever and could just talk to. The neighbor who cooked a little extra so she can give us some. Or what about being able to tell my mom I’m going over to so-and-so’s house I’ll be back and no one worried who so-and so was because she knew. I miss that community aspect very much, but again, I go back to there’s something nutty because I miss the drunks talking crap; the druggies stumbling here and there; the kids who scrambled on the ave … you know the grime too. Like Hugo said, that gritty side of Harlem that only a real harlemite can handle.
Sidebar: Hugo … it’s not a Dominican thing. My parents are from Georgia and had the same idea …work and go back home. Today after 30 plus years of working, they are 3 R’d: Retired, Renting and Resentful! Yes they made sacrifices putting us through schools and feeding and clothing us, but they never took advantage of things and they didn’t really pass any knowledge our way about homeownership. It burns me when my mom tells of stories about how they could’ve had this building, that building or lived here and there. BURNS me because like Hugo … I gotta start from point zero.
The programs of past where prices were well below 700 are far far gone now 123. The opportunities came and gone … and not too many people jumped at it. As people did, as people started to flood our little village the prices jumped ridiculously in a matter of months. Finally yes, I have a child and I do plan on telling her my stories of Harlem. The sad thing is that I never thought Harlem would be what we see today. I never imagined that every corner of Harlem would be as it is today. I any one had the presence of mind to take pictures out there please post them or make a book or something because my neighbors can’t believe my description of my Harlem.
Last Sidebar: Check out the movie “Who’s The Man” with Ed Lover and Dre Dre 1993. You want to see how Harlem looked just 15 years ago! What a change. What a renaissance!
Lastly, my growing up “hood” and my being schooled in the “hood”. It’s history. But it’s going to be hard to point things out to my child when the things I grew up knowing have disappeared. I’m amazed that the very building I live and own in …was a vacant lot I grew up playing baseball and football in. The little spots I used to go to have long been gone and the black faces I knew on the street have died off. So when she gets old enough to get it … “it” will be gone.
123uptownside
March 15, 2007
I can not speak to the situations that you mention M.F. but I can speak of two instances that I know of in the 70′s where black’s who were property owners already in Bklyn looked into certain boarded up buildings in Harlem and were told they were not for sale. IT DID HAPPEN.
But I really don’t care about that now because I can’t change it, but I do care about the fact that I have seen the rents escalate to over 300% of what I am paying for my brownstone apt. My father was born and raised in Harlem. I’ve seen his Masonic temple stolen. And I’m tired.
Look I don’t have a problem with the change of the complexion. I have a problem with the change of the “Sense of Community”. Since when is there a SOHA… It’s South Harlem or Harlem, if you can’t stand to say the name please don’t move here..I say here because I live here
I doubt if they (and you decide who they might be) bastardize “little Italy”.
M.F. I sense from your tone that all this is good with you ? I sense you are a property owner who is rejoicing in the complexion change smuggle thinking of the increase in property value. And if you know of programs where I can get affordable property still (less than 700K) please let me know. But I can’t believe that anyone who walked through these streets holding their fathers hands as he told stories of how you could run from one building to the next. Or heard about dancing until dawn or a stick ball game on 123rd can speak as you do. So here is what I hope, I hope you grab your child by the hand if you have one and “don’t sit and enjoy the ride” as you say, but rather tell them about the history of Harlem telling them about the renaissance, walking the streets with them and yes chucking and the spot where you could buy a KNOX Hat, cause baby that is what matters.
Hugo
March 15, 2007
M.F. I truly appreciate your comment. I think it brings the issue closer to the center rather than pitting blame on one side or the other. I think I was afraid of saying something like that because so many people reading these posts are writing from the outside looking in and perhaps would not understand. It’s one of those in-house topics.
I was born and raised in Harlem. Looking back part of me wishes my family had internalized the culture of home ownership when they immigrated here 30 years ago. One of the weaknesses of Dominican households is that first generation immigrants came to this country with the idea that they would work here and retire in DR. The handicap here is that they limited themselves to renting and paying bills without ever acquiring any real assets. While I am grateful to my family for working hard to put me through good schools it leaves me at a disadvantage because I’m basically starting at point zero. Anyway, I digress.
By the time I came into my own, Harlem’s real estate prices had already risen to the point where I couldn’t even fathom getting a down payment or a mortgage. This was around the year 2000. However, seeing the exponential surge in real estate prices last year I truly got scared that I’d be washed out with the rising rent prices. I challenged myself and now my sister and I are in the process of buying a place before we can’t afford them anymore.
I agree that secretly there’s a part of the harlem ethos in a lot of us that wishes for it to remain unattractive to outsiders to keep them out. It’s a little sick but it’s true. It’s a twisted pride of knowing that only we have skin tough enough to deal with the grittier side of Harlem. I think that gave everyone the false security that Harlem would always remain cheap for us (and always remain ours) and hence we always scoffed at the idea of owning property dismissing it as a phenomenon characteristic of the true (and mainly white) suburbs or rich neighborhoods downtown.
But that’s not the case. Manhattan has become smaller and people are looking to every corner of the city to move into. Harlem, Spanish Harlem, and Washington Heights are the last refuges of real estate left and that’s why we’re seeing everyone flock uptown. We’re seeing treasure chests of money being dumped into condos and chain retail stores. For better or worse Harlem is changing. We can either rant or we can see which way the wind is blowing and try secure our inches of land the proper way.
Faced with the recent changes in Harlem though I urge everyone to gain a foothold and own something as quick as possible.
MF is right. There have been many programs whose sole purpose has been to help harlemites own property. And i think there’s an even bigger underlying problem that’d not only particular to Harlem but the US at large and it’s educating our citizens on financial responsibility. It does not affect more affluent families as much because they have a much stronger safety net. But for minorities who live in Harlem, Queens, and Brooklyn who live from check to check, we pay heavily for not educating ourselves about things such as building good credit, savings, and balancing our expenses.
Unfortunately, this is something that we are not taught in high school or even college for that matter. I think that if as a people this had been part of our cultural DNA there would a lot more native Harlemites owning property today and we would not be feeling as helpless to the wave of change. I know this veers a bit of the topic but it is a root issue that affects us all. I know that it woke me up and I am trying to do something about.
M.F.
March 14, 2007
An anonymous writer (#9) wrote on 4/10 about some instances in Harlem and ended “But you can’t handle the truth, can you?” The truth in so many ways is harder to understand because there are so many angles to approach it.
One thing I’d like to add to this conversation is that the Harlem community has had PLENTY of opportunities to invest in their own neighborhood either as a homeowner or a business owner. When I worked for what was (not sure if it still is) the premier non-profit, Harlem based, religiously affiliated development organization, I saw first hand the half stepping of our people. Let’s start with the commercial aspect. So many black business people came to us with no business plan, no real sustained cash flow (yeah they had hard cash up front, but that will only last a minute) and poor credit. I showed person after person properties who had interest in many sites throughout Central Harlem and one after another fell to the wayside because they were not prepared to really invest what was needed. As far as homeownership, going back to the 70’s, Koch was getting rid of brownstones (undeveloped) for just thousands and many people were too snatched up at least one piece of property. Then there is the uninformed idea that most of the brownstones in Harlem where owned by white folks. Actually, the inventory of buildings in Harlem where primarily owned by the City somewhere in the area of 70% or so with the rest owned by black Harlemites upwards of 20%. Lets stay here a second. Homeownership opportunities have been available to us for many years. Starting in the early 90’s with a small program called Citihomes I, then II and the Homeworks programs. We were selling FULLY RENOVATED brownstones for no more than 110. The average may have been 80 to 95. To cut it short … I heard excuse after excuse when people where qualified and had the money! The properties came with rental units and basically paid for them selves. This has been the case for well over 10 years and now Harlem folks want to cry (racism, same-ism, whatever) when we had the opportunity time and time again. And don’t say “we didn’t know” because everyone knew and didn’t pursue for one reason or another. With rentals … there was this program (TIL) that was completely underutilized where tenants of a building could ban together and get the building from the city and run it like a co-op but without most of the co-op like issues. Again, another missed opportunity. I’m not a psychologist but I have always said that mentally, certain Harlemites want Harlem to remain the somewhat poor, almost developed, pockets of civility of the mid 90’s. Where rents were 500 bucks and a brownstone was attainable for fewer than 300. Wake up, my people, time moves on and prices rise with or without you. Harlem for the most part is unrecognizable to someone like me who was born here (yes! Sydenham Hospital), raised here and continues to live here. So either adapt or move. But, stop complaining and blaming someone else. On a personal note: if you were not born here, no, if you have not been here at least 10 years. Sit down. Be quiet. And enjoy the renaissance.
dasit
March 12, 2007
As it stands NOW, developers don’t have a moral obligation to provide housing to low income folks. As it stands NOW, landlords don’t have a moral obligation to keep Harlem predominately Black. But just because something is the way it is doesn’t mean that’s the way it has to be. (Who was it that said no matter what else I become, let me always be a person that questions the way things are? Franz Fanon?)
Anyway, IMO, the fact that you can even ask questions like that in a group of people who are educated about the Harlem community without making a priori assumptions that what IS is what SHOULD be, is part of what makes Harlem unique. For the most part, you can still “speak truth to power” in discussions about Harlem’s past, present and future. I like that we are still a questioning population. And I like that we think about what will happen if we are inundated with people who have no need to ask these question because they’ve fabricated a society that supports all of their needs and encourages their success.
I don’t think that bringing H&M (shout out to fellow shopper “ac”!) in Harlem is going to hamper our ability to discuss things like the huge blindspot inflicted by white skin privilege in the context of gentrification (and, IMO, that’s precisely what’s going on when someone says something like, well, landlords just charge whatever rent the market will bear), but I do worry that implying our population is so parochial that we’ll flee from any change that doesn’t resemble the community we’ve always known will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
anon
March 12, 2007
#12, Very interesting about hard working Black people with cold hard cash trying to buy in Harlem. Why where they refused, was is because.
a) They where black
b) The cold hard cash was not up to the asking price
c) The owner did not want to sell at that time
d) The owner was holding out for a higher price at a later date
Pray tell the nature of the injustice.
Harlem Girl
March 11, 2007
#9 is so on point and things like this are still happening today.
I won’t go into too much detail here, but I could write a book about some of the injustices going on against hard working Black people with cold hard cash today in 2007. Their money has literally been refused when they have tried to purchase property.
NAT
March 10, 2007
With all of this new wealth arriving in Harlem, how many of the tax free dollars are being recirculate within the Harlem community or are they still being taken out of the community and circulated elsewhere.
anon
March 10, 2007
#9, Blame is old, leaves behind a widow and orphan called could’ve and should’ve.
anon
March 10, 2007
Most of you refuse to “get it”. For several decades unfair & unlawful practices by the public and private sector produced an ethnic neighborhood where Black people dwelled in a high percentage but did not own in a high percentage. It’s called “Harlem”. Redlining, warehousing, a myriad of institutional practices some illegal, all unethical and unfair, practiced by Government and private sector.
Sure, some Blacks managed to buy in the 30′s, 40′s, 50′s, 60′s, 70′s, and 80′s, but they are/were the exception. Thousands of hardworking, well employed Black people during this period were denied access to the mortgage market for reasons of race. These are facts that you can’t deny, all well documented, deal with it.
The numerous decades of this reality have now produced a landscape that’s “easy for pickins’” and or “low hanging fruit” to those today who can buy. There are generations raised in Harlem where the concept, the notion, the possibility of “owning” their apt is entirely foreign, not a possibility (for all sorts of reasons).
Today if your even a small scale developer, Harlem is “low fruit”. Lots are plentiful, Brownstones in need of Renovation are abundant. Up until the late 90′s buying and apt or Brownstone was “low fruit” for individuals. I was one of those people. I’m not from Harlem, but have lived here for about 15 years now and “homeownership” from where I come from, was a primary goal of adulthood. That mentality did not exist in Harlem,likely due to historical injustices and unfair practices.
I benefited tremendously from the historical wrongs when I bought my place. The supply was abundant and competition thin for historical reasons (this is before White folks started moving to Harlem in droves).
But I am not in denial about this and I am honest about it. Most white folks are in denial and “don’t get it”, don’t see how today they benefit in having a vast selection of Brownstones to buy and renovate and new condos on empty lots there were formerly lots where the practice of “Warehousing” kept buildings empty, unused, and unable to buy.
An Example for the white folks? Lenox Ave. between 124th & 125th. It’s now torn down right?…last month or so? That whole front on the Lenox Side was “warehoused” for decades.
A person in Harlem that wanted to buy it, had the money to buy it, was not able to buy it and it sat unused and warehoused for decades. Now that property exchanged hands last year as part of a huge portfolio with this Brookyln Jewish guy however the point is warehousing denied people from buying and developing the property. Some of the people looking to do that were Black people.
Sure, they’re developing it now, but it sat as “urban blight” for decades, denied to potential Black developers, believe me I know, Black people know.
This is not one isolated example, this happend in Harlem with thousands of structures, homes, buildings for decades. Couple this with Redlining for over 50 years and what do you get? A community with a very low percentage of property ownership by the folks that lived their in high percentages for nearly 100 years.
White people think Black folks in Harlem did not become property owners for reasons of choice. They simply cannot accept, acknowledge, and or come to terms with how anyone (White, Black, Blue, Green) who buys in Harlem today is a benefactor in some form or fashion to a measure of historical wrongs.
But you can’t handle the truth, can you?
DG
March 9, 2007
f my landlord wants to raise the rent, it’s his/her right, I’m just leasing the space. They do not have a moral obligation to house me because I need it.
James you raise an important point, perhaps, the most important point. I ask you though, who or what is this “market”. Is it just a law of nature? Something you cannot question or shape in any way? Do way have to live by the laws of the market? Or can we introduce other laws and shape our own lives?
The question is whether you think property owners should have certain legal responsibilities that go beyond stuffing their pockets with more and more money. I for one would rather live in a society where there are such obligations, but that’s just me.
A great discussion!
ac
March 9, 2007
any time, hugo. we go way back after all…
Hugo
March 9, 2007
thanks for the clarification ac…
ac
March 9, 2007
actually hugo, BOTH are happening. upper class black people have already and continue to move to harlem, and less affluent, young, cant afford the rents downtown white people are moving in. of course rich white folk are in the mix too…it’s ALL happening.
Hugo
March 9, 2007
#2…i don’t even understand what point you’re making with those two questions. neither of the two is the case in harlem.
reality
March 9, 2007
Most gay people have been priced out of the West Village and Chelsea, and now Hell’s Kitchen. Doesn’t mean that it happened because of homophobia. It is all about $$$.
Anon
March 9, 2007
Just a question for our anti-gentrificators. Which is a greater evil? Rich black people moving in and raising the price or poor white people moving in and making Harlem less black?
James
March 9, 2007
I think some of my fellow posters are missing one point about “moving people out of their homes”. The apartments are not “theirs” it belongs to whomever owns the property. If my landlord wants to raise the rent, it’s his/her right, I’m just leasing the space. They do not have a moral obligation to house me because I need it.
This is simply how the market is. Is not “economic failure”. Developers have no obligation to keep Harlem Black any more than they have have to keep Murray Hill, Indian; Chinatown, Chinese; or Arthur’s Ave, Italian.